| |
Subject |
Author |
Date Posted |
Forum
|
 |
RE: Hanging with who brung us to the dance...
While I do not currently ride a Honda, I will say this. If I were going to go looking for a used machine, my first instinct would be to look for a Honda, particularly the Rancher/Foreman/Rubicon. I have owned Kawasakis, Hondas, Yamahas, and now a Zuki. I can honestly say none of the Kawis, Yamahas, or Zukis has held up against wear and tear like my Hondas did. I am extremely disappointed in the Suzuki in particular. This thing is just plain fragile. Honda is missing the boat on a few things, no doubt, but reliability and longevity is Hondas cornerstone. Anyone who thinks a Grizzly, King Quad, or Brute Force will last just as long as a Foreman, or take the abuse a Foremen will without breaking, obviously hasn't tried it. I have owned three Hondas. I have owned a Grizz and 2 King Quads. I have more repair dollars in the Yamaha and Suzuki I currently ride than I ever put into all three Hondas combined. This is Hondas legacy, so I would concur with the gentleman from Georgia.......in this particular instance. :B
My polaris Magnum 2x4 has withstood one hell of a beating , and made it through so many "rough" times. ITs seen over 50 gallons of corn through her , and been flipped swamped smashed numerous time. Still Fires up , still takes a beating , still able to Stunt! (for those of you who dont know what stuntin' is , GOOGLE it.)
SO Fox are you saying, because of your experience, that Polaris is as reliable as a Honda? Polaris, the worst for problems and repairs. You must me kidding. I can't think of a more problematic ATV.
|
kmdad
|
11/19/08 06:23pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Hanging with who brung us to the dance...
Considering that Honda out sells all other ATVs I would say that winning a small number of 400c contests shows how much they need to improve to be any good in the mud let alone the snow.If you go on their web site they dream of low range and a locker hell they would be happy with Visco Loc.
honda sucks , a sportsman is better than any other honda out there stock for stock/CC
Performance-wise? In many cases, I would tend to agree. For the type of riding I do, I would choose the Rincon over any Sportsman, mostly due to the overall size and weight of those bad boys. For me, its more about agility and fast, agressive trail riding. Top choices for me based on that are an Outty/Renegade 800 or a Rincon 680. Also, from the feedback i have read around the net, the SP800 is a much better machine than its smaller siblings. I can only assume they have set the bar even higher with the new 850. For situations like deep mud and snow, as well as rock crawling, i would take the Sportsman hands down. The Sportsman is also the comfort king.
I think your statement that "Honda sucks" is a bit vague. I prefer "Honda doen't offer some of the mechanical attributes that many riders out there need or desire. Quality-wise, they are hard to beat, but this justr isn't enough anymore. Volvo made some of the highest quality vehicles available for a very long time with their 200/700/900 series, but they lacked creature comforts, which cost them a lot of market share. This too has changed immensely over the last 15 years...........because they had to. Honda has painted themselves into a similar corner. the status quo no longer cuts the mustard for a great many riders and enthusiasts.
Well said. Very well said. Honda did make some effort to keep people in the 400 class ATV with the changes to the 420. Also, I hear the Big Red is a very capable machine ( but not a very sexy machine.) However, to expand on what you said, both of those 500cc machines are way out of date. The Rubicon asn't changed sense 2001. ( except the look) This to me is unexceptable. This quad is the most reliable, out-of-date and underpowered machine on the market. And with the down turn in the market, Honda will feel the effects of this decision to leave an ATV to compete in a very highly competitive market on repution alone.
|
kmdad
|
11/11/08 08:37pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Hanging with who brung us to the dance...
Well, well, newby do you have any Video's of you Honda in the mud or snow so we can see those 26" mud tires throwing mud or snow.If not I will see if I can get some .
Now you're just typing for the sake of typing. Any decent 450cc ute worth its salt will throw mud and snow with 26's. That said, questioning whether his Rincon 680 will do it is ridiculous. Newby, I wouldn't even make the effort to post those pics, unless you really want to, as you are only entertaining the one child on this forum. The rest of us realize the pointlessness of his query. For some reason, he needs to constantly remind us, or maybe just himself, that the 800 Rotax has a significant power edge over most other utes, with the exception of the Thundercat, and only a slight edge over the BF750. If You didn't ride in the high county then you could probably get buy with with a Honda if you stayed out of the deep snow and rocks.you would also have to stay away from the high sand dunes.That is why you will see a lot of people in the high county leaving Honda for other ATVs.Even a 700 Yamaha needs a clutch kit to work well up hear.At 8000ft you lose about 24% percent of your power.That is why we like 800s,850s,and 950s in the high county.
Can't believe this guy's is 67....13 maybe, but 67? Am I the only one who is blown away with this guy immaturity?
|
kmdad
|
11/09/08 06:16pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Hanging with who brung us to the dance...
Kmdad If I wanted to just ride I might have a Honda but it's more fun to lead.
Ha Ha! oh bear, a man with your years behind you that still can't understand quality is such a waste. Just like when I ride with Can Ams they love the fact that I'm behind, 'cause when the break downs start, they are glad that someone's there to pick them up.
|
kmdad
|
11/04/08 10:24pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Hanging with who brung us to the dance...
And some may be more reliable than a honda!
go team polaris!
Would you care to give a better or more plausible example?
I won't say there aren't other brands who can stand up to Honda in reliability, as many companies have made big time quality improvements, but you just brought a knife to a gun fight with that post my friend.
I agree with this and I think people underestimate the value of reliability. I will say time and time again that honda don't have the features that other manufactures has. However just like most other manufactures have improved their reliability issues, Honda have improved their features on some models. ie 420 now comes with IRS and auto. Big Red as IRS, auto and Diff LOC. Rubicon with Power steering. Well they keep with a Can Am? No. however, will a Can AM put 80000 KM on them,like I saw one 350. No. And for hunters, farmers and trailer riders like me reliability is the best feature of all when the rest of the machine performs close. Like I have stated in the past, when riding with Can Ams and Polaris machines the times they waited for me because of inability was far less than the times I waited for them for problems (over heating belt issues and stalls).
|
kmdad
|
11/04/08 08:55pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Hanging with who brung us to the dance...
Hondas are reliable because they dont have enough power to break parts. Your wright but it's not because they don't know how to make power.
If you wanted to see how reliable that Outty of yours is, try this. The time that you spend talking about outlanders, try riding for the same amount of time. If your Outlander could stand up to that, I'll by two. Like are you not a man in his mid 50's that's been kicked off of here several times so you keep coming back with different names so you can stay... Like what the hell is wrong with you. Just to like you know that for a man in his mid 50 that would go to that extreme to get his message out about the ATV he rides and how everyone that don't ride this machine is driving somthing inferior needs work. Are there no other hobbies or activity you can get into that can help past the time....Are there any pigeon to feed where you live. To let you know, brpbear, you are the biggest push for Outlands on this form and for that reason I wouldn't buy one...I'll stick to Honda. That's funny you missed my age by 12 years I'm 67.One more thing if you want to ride red and last in the snow go for it.
Oh I'm sorry. You're 67 , you must have dementia. Everything makes perfect sense now. That explains everything.
|
kmdad
|
11/03/08 04:20pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Hanging with who brung us to the dance...
Hondas are reliable because they dont have enough power to break parts. Your wright but it's not because they don't know how to make power.
If you wanted to see how reliable that Outty of yours is, try this. The time that you spend talking about outlanders, try riding for the same amount of time. If your Outlander could stand up to that, I'll by two. Like are you not a man in his mid 50's that's been kicked off of here several times so you keep coming back with different names so you can stay... Like what the hell is wrong with you. Just to like you know that for a man in his mid 50 that would go to that extreme to get his message out about the ATV he rides and how everyone that don't ride this machine is driving somthing inferior needs work. Are there no other hobbies or activity you can get into that can help past the time....Are there any pigeon to feed where you live. To let you know, brpbear, you are the biggest push for Outlands on this form and for that reason I wouldn't buy one...I'll stick to Honda.
|
kmdad
|
11/03/08 12:44pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Honda Finally did it
There's no denying that Honda makes great products. When contractors started using Honda generators in the 80's they outlasted the Briggs or Tecumseh equipted units at least three fold. This caused other engine makers to vastly improve their designs. This is also true with other products, such as ATV's. Honda's problem is; if a particular product works well, they are very slow to update it. Even when its common scence upgrades. Such as going with disk brakes on certain models. It took them forever to finally switch to them. If Honda would be a little more bold in modernizing some things, they could truly shock the world with new products.
LOL...I agree that Honda is slow to build a ATV that is as feature filled as say Can Am or Kawi. Ok I agree. However, just like other manufactures that is slow to build a reliable product but have improved, Honda is improving on their features. They now have a Side by Side that is IRS and Diff loc and time will show that reliability wasn't compromised in the process. They now have a mid size ATV with IRS, PS, and 5 speed Auto/manual without compromising reliability.
The reasons that I like Honda, is because when you buy their products, what you see is what you get. With any other manufactures, the fluff is up front to sell the product. Like big exploding banners that say things like "The first 500 with EFI and IRS" or "The most powerful ATV in its class." When you take these machines home and the banners are gone then so is the support. That's when you realize that these features for less comes at a price. And yes over time they will work their bugs out, but only after they sell thousands of these units to consumers to fight with the problems they didn't take care of on the assembly line.
Honda is a manufacture that is right for me... The features that it don't have isn't a big deal for the 500cc machine that I ride. However, my Rubicon has 1400 km on it now and not only does it not give me any grief, but it feels just like the day I purchased it. No rattles, squeeks or problems and that is the feature that's the most impressive of all.
|
kmdad
|
10/04/08 09:19am |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Honda Finally did it
found that the Rubicon/foreman/Rancher models all have Power Steering as an option. That to me would make the Rubicon a good candidate for trail machine.
Adding IRS would put it over the top.
Honda has a long way to go with their utility line up to shake the lawn tractor atv image i have of them. A good solid product yes, but years behind in performance.
Even if your idea of a utility atv is hauling a moose out of the woods or plowing a long drive the big twins on the market do it much better, in other words no advantage goes to Honda as a work horse either.
I totally disagree with this statement. Honda atvs don't have the performance of say a Polaris or Can Am, However, if you can't pull the moose you want with a Foreman or Rubicon than you should think twice before you shoot such a animal. I've seen some pretty big animals towed out with Hondas. Can other machines do the same or better. Sure, because of more power. However, as a Hunter these machine are not getting turned over every three years like trail machine. most hunter I know are still using their '99 400 Honda. And what they want is a bike that they use hard around the farm and pull that moose out every years without problems and for that reason Honda has the record of reliability heads and tails above every other manufacture.
For a mud machine or rock climbing Honda isn't the machine and i see these other machines on the internet totally crushing Hondas on mud runs or hill climbs. However, when I go on a day ride over 5 or 6 hours with my Rubicon on a hot day and I'm running with Polaris and Can Am. The number of times they have to stop for me because I couldn't get through some mud hole is nowhere near the number of times I have to stop because they are over heating, belt slipping( not yamaha they seem to have a good belt system) or broke down...And these are new machines. So where I run and what i do my Honda out performs everyone. Yes your wright in most cases a honda will allmost go where a ATV with traction and power will.When you can't I'm sure the popo and cand hams will pull you out.So if you want to ridded last ride red.
I ride last because I ride red. Everyone in my riding group aways wants me in the back because I can help the guys who go mechancal instead of aways have to double back to help. It's the usual "I'm over heating,"hang on wet belt," or my favourite if it's a Kawi" what the hell is wrong with this thing now"
|
kmdad
|
10/03/08 04:06pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Honda Finally did it
found that the Rubicon/foreman/Rancher models all have Power Steering as an option. That to me would make the Rubicon a good candidate for trail machine.
Adding IRS would put it over the top.
Honda has a long way to go with their utility line up to shake the lawn tractor atv image i have of them. A good solid product yes, but years behind in performance.
Even if your idea of a utility atv is hauling a moose out of the woods or plowing a long drive the big twins on the market do it much better, in other words no advantage goes to Honda as a work horse either.
I totally disagree with this statement. Honda atvs don't have the performance of say a Polaris or Can Am, However, if you can't pull the moose you want with a Foreman or Rubicon than you should think twice before you shoot such a animal. I've seen some pretty big animals towed out with Hondas. Can other machines do the same or better. Sure, because of more power. However, as a Hunter these machine are not getting turned over every three years like trail machine. most hunter I know are still using their '99 400 Honda. And what they want is a bike that they use hard around the farm and pull that moose out every years without problems and for that reason Honda has the record of reliability heads and tails above every other manufacture.
For a mud machine or rock climbing Honda isn't the machine and i see these other machines on the internet totally crushing Hondas on mud runs or hill climbs. However, when I go on a day ride over 5 or 6 hours with my Rubicon on a hot day and I'm running with Polaris and Can Am. The number of times they have to stop for me because I couldn't get through some mud hole is nowhere near the number of times I have to stop because they are over heating, belt slipping( not yamaha they seem to have a good belt system) or broke down...And these are new machines. So where I run and what i do my Honda out performs everyone.
|
kmdad
|
10/03/08 11:24am |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Honda Finally did it
642lbs? Even wet thats alot of weight for a 420.. with a 3.5 gallon tank.
Why does honda still use those 24" tires with 11inch rims? they should just go with 25/x/12's all around IMO.
Why, the weight is right in there with the IRS Yamaha Grizzly 450 and the Suzuki King Quad 450.
But BOTH of the ATVs you mentioned are IRS.
The weight of the Big Bear 350 auto is more of a fair comparison.
Dry weight on the Big Bear 350 is: 536 lb
The Rancher refered to in this thread was the 09 Rancher AT which will now have IRS and PS, and a Rubicon like automatic transmission. There is no Big Bear 350 by the way, and the Grizzly 350/Big Bear 400 are air cooled without a dual tranny, and non FI, so there is no comparison. The non IRS Rancher weighs in at 605 wet.
well, buy the sounds of it the tranny is a 5 speed with a manual or auto selector like the Rincon with 2 more gears. I don't think it's Hondamatic. Which isn't a bad thing, the Hondamatic loses too much through the tranny. Should have this system on the Foreman, plus ISR
|
kmdad
|
09/27/08 09:23am |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Honda Finally did it
Just did a little online research and found that the Rubicon/foreman/Rancher models all have Power Steering as an option. That to me would make the Rubicon a good candidate for trail machine.
Adding IRS would put it over the top.
I agree, I would've like to see EFI and IRS, but there were alot of changes to their line this year with the Big Red. I guess next year you may see some changes to the Rubicon.
|
kmdad
|
09/14/08 08:00pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Honda Finally did it
Another failed machine by Honda! No locker! Thay just can't seem to finish a bike!Don't worry,the dummies will still buy it because its a "Honda"
Will, Snake it has everything else and for myself a locker would be nice, but I would turn away from a quality machine because it doesn't have a locker. By the sounds of it with the powersteering, 5 speed auto and 420 power, it looks like it will be a contender for top spot in the mid size machines. Also, most likely the best machine that Honda makes for trail and mud riding. In the real world if you are riding in mud and muskeg, a locker is nice, but certainly not a necessity. I've been with Yamaha's, Polaris and Can Am riding on all day trips and the number of time they stop for me, on my Rubicon, because I was stuck wasn't anywhere near the number of times I had to stop for problems with their machines. Over heating,stuck, actual, break downs, etc.So if I had a choice to have a good midsize bike with very nice features and a good reliable reputation or a locker on another machine, I would take the 420. Incidently, powersteering on a ATV would be more of a benifit than a locker. It would get used more and less fatigue on long runs. I can only think of a few situation where I needed a locker.
Well said kmdad, and there is alot of agreement out there too. In recently riding the trails of H/M Buffalo mountain on my Honda Foreman, I climbed some sensational and steep rocky trails that required considerable skill to make it up. I did not need a locker and had no problem with the 4x4 keeping traction all the way to the top. I put it in 2nd gear, climbed up on the tank and let the machine do all the work. It performed perfectly. The new Rancher will even be more capable.
I've said this in the past and I will say it again; If you want a quad that can be used for hardcore mud running i.e. "The Mud national," than maybe a Honda isn't for you. Also, if you want a machine that you want for extreme mud or rock climbing with and trade it in every 2 or 3 years, than Honda may not be the best choice. However, if you want an ATV for Hunting, fishing, utility purposes or spirited trail and muddy trail riding, you should consider a Honda. And now with the 420 AT as equiped as it is, Honda is finally looking at trail comfort has a marketing feature (long over due). I was hoping for the Rubicon to have the features the 420 has, but with bring the Big Red to life and a new 420, it was too much to ask to a redesigned Rubicon...Maybe next year.
|
kmdad
|
09/08/08 10:04pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Honda Finally did it
This may be my new machine.
Great bike for my wife! I would like it from time to time too.
I only weight about 140lbs and it would be plenty for me. I am not out to win any races just enjoy the woods.
And you'll have a bike that will do everything that you need and more. Great choice!
|
kmdad
|
09/06/08 03:17pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Honda Finally did it
This may be my new machine.
Great bike for my wife! I would like it from time to time too.
|
kmdad
|
09/06/08 01:58pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Honda Finally did it
Another failed machine by Honda! No locker! Thay just can't seem to finish a bike!Don't worry,the dummies will still buy it because its a "Honda"
Will, Snake it has everything else and for myself a locker would be nice, but I would turn away from a quality machine because it doesn't have a locker. By the sounds of it with the powersteering, 5 speed auto and 420 power, it looks like it will be a contender for top spot in the mid size machines. Also, most likely the best machine that Honda makes for trail and mud riding. In the real world if you are riding in mud and muskeg, a locker is nice, but certainly not a necessity. I've been with Yamaha's, Polaris and Can Am riding on all day trips and the number of time they stop for me, on my Rubicon, because I was stuck wasn't anywhere near the number of times I had to stop for problems with their machines. Over heating,stuck, actual, break downs, etc.So if I had a choice to have a good midsize bike with very nice features and a good reliable reputation or a locker on another machine, I would take the 420. Incidently, powersteering on a ATV would be more of a benifit than a locker. It would get used more and less fatigue on long runs. I can only think of a few situation where I needed a locker.
|
kmdad
|
09/06/08 01:56pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Honda Finally did it
The 09 Rancher's got a 5 speed manual/5 speed Auto tranny with IRS. Also, Powersteering and front and rear disc brakes. This is now an ATV to compete in the midsize market. I'll say it will be the top midsize atv. Way the Go Honda!
Nice! Does it use the Rubicon transmission?
No, here are the new features of the Rancher:
New Honda automatic five-speed transmission provides five-speed auto-shifting or push-button manual shifting with Honda's Electric Shift Program (ESP™, see Technology Section)
Rugged OHV liquid-cooled, fuel-injected 420cc longitudinally mounted engine allows direct driveshaft alignment to both front and rear wheels for maximum drivetrain efficiency (see Technology Section).
Revolutionary Electric Power Steering (EPS) (see technology section)
Double-wishbone Independent Rear Suspension (IRS) contributes to increased ground clearance and responsive, class-leading handling.
Front and rear disc brakes for phenomenal braking performance.
|
kmdad
|
09/06/08 11:33am |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: Honda Finally did it
Locker?No Locker. The foreman has been redesigned, but mot much more.
|
kmdad
|
09/06/08 12:19am |
Utility/4x4
|
|
Honda Finally did it
The 09 Rancher's got a 5 speed manual/5 speed Auto tranny with IRS. Also, Powersteering and front and rear disc brakes. This is now an ATV to compete in the midsize market. I'll say it will be the top midsize atv. Way the Go Honda!
|
kmdad
|
09/05/08 07:08pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
RE: New models
In order for Honda to gain some respect back from me they would have to come out with something....and I dont know if this is the right word choice but....innovative. Something that will make people stop and realize that Honda is on the ball with the market and follow and/or creating new trends. For example, Polaris putting load leveling shocks on the Ranger HD is impressive, or Polaris throwing long travel suspension and Fox shocks on the Razr S, that personally, has been my favorite addition to ANY 2009 lineup. Heck even Artic Cats mud oriented 700(although not for me or my style) is semi-impressive. I just want to see Honda come up with something that makes me go "damn...thats a great idea".
I beg to differ. That may work for you, but for Honda to hit a sweet spot, they would only have to match features with Yamaha or Suzuki. Their reputation will pull people in. i.e. Low range and a locker on the Rincon. Done. Locker, IRS and EFI on the Rubicon. People that where waiting to see what honda was doing before they brought would run to get these machines.
|
kmdad
|
09/04/08 09:19pm |
Utility/4x4
|
|
